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Online MacGyver

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Transfer Issue
« on: December 17, 2015, 10:44:53 AM »
Mike Brady owns an architectural firm.  Mike is at extension 111.

When Mike is in a meeting he puts his phone in DND mode.  When his phone is in DND mode if anyone transfers a call to him, it goes straight to his VM.  Anyone except Jan.

Jan is at extension 110.  If Mike is in DND mode and Jan tries to transfer a call to him, the call bounces back to her.  

Notice in the first screenshot of the logs that the Allworx seems to be confused as to Jan's extension, but in the second screenshot things seem to be in order:

It's Allworx 6x Ver. 7.4.  The phones are 9212s and upgrading is absolutely off the table.  Any insight?

-I'm only here because my flux capacitor is broken.

Offline hacky

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Re: Transfer Issue
« Reply #1 on: December 17, 2015, 12:53:58 PM »
I can't see the screenshots yet.  Is the software 7.4.19.2 ?
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Online MacGyver

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Re: Transfer Issue
« Reply #2 on: December 17, 2015, 01:08:36 PM »
I can't see the screenshots yet.  Is the software 7.4.19.2 ?

7.4.10.5

I think I know why the screenshots weren't coming up for you and it should be fixed.

BTW, does the Allworx use MAC addresses for it's forwarding paths?

Thanks, Brayton.  :054:
-I'm only here because my flux capacitor is broken.

Offline hacky

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Re: Transfer Issue
« Reply #3 on: December 17, 2015, 01:39:27 PM »
Ok, the things to check are as follows.

1) Are the transfers being performed by pressing BLF keys?  If so, if the handsets are in key system mode (check the handset preference group)  the system initiates an intercom call (that may potentially bounce back in DND)   And, depending on the individual preference of that handset, it may just ring or open the speakerphone right away (like Comdial's voice signalling versus tone signalling).  But, if the handsets are in PBX mode, the user's extension is dialed, and the user's call route is followed.  Does Mike have Follow Me set up to his cellphone?  The top screenshot looked strange for sure, somebody rigged that up specially to accomplish something specific.

2)  This is similar to 1  but check the handset preference groups for Jan versus the working handsets.  Are they the same?

3) You may be hitting bug #10810  but I would need to see more logs or screenshots to know that for sure.  Honestly, bring a shotgun (or super soaker)  and tell the Customer this is for your own good, and upgrade them to 7.4.19.2.  This will also clear the other 58 defects that you may not have noticed.  I've done tons of upgrades remotely (including the officesafe backup)  and never had to run onsite because of a problem.

Please keep me in the loop
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Online MacGyver

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Re: Transfer Issue
« Reply #4 on: December 17, 2015, 03:25:07 PM »
1) Are the transfers being performed by pressing BLF keys?

They have tried it with the BLF key and by TRAN + 3 + Extension.  They both behave the same way.

If so, if the handsets are in key system mode...


They are all in key system mode.

...depending on the individual preference of that handset, it may just ring or open the speakerphone right away

Intercom Auto Answer is enabled.

Does Mike have Follow Me set up to his cellphone?  

He does not.

The top screenshot looked strange for sure, somebody rigged that up specially to accomplish something specific.
Unfortunately, no.   :016:

2)  This is similar to 1  but check the handset preference groups for Jan versus the working handsets.  Are they the same?
Yes.  They are all the same.

3) ...upgrade them to 7.4.19.2.  

Upgrading has been expressly taken off the table.  

Please keep me in the loop

Thanks, Brayton.

BTW, a couple of phones have been swapped around at times which is why I was asking if there are any forwarding paths or mapping by MAC address.  
-I'm only here because my flux capacitor is broken.

Offline hacky

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Re: Transfer Issue
« Reply #5 on: December 17, 2015, 10:20:02 PM »
Trans + 3 + Extension    -  That should put it straight to that user's voicemail regardless of DND state.   Extremely interesting that it would bounce back - it simply should not happen.

I would love to be able to remote into the system and check everything,  because "Cell Phone TX" and those digits exist in the programming somewhere.  If there was something wonky in programming, I guarantee I would find it.

 
Now, I'm not sure who forbade the upgrade, but I'm an Allworx dealer and if a customer told me that, I wouldn't be able to fulfill my own warranty or support the system.  It would be a big cause for concern for me.  Now I don't know the situation, but if there's anything I can do to help you or the customer, please send me a PM.   If the problem could be solved without an upgrade, I still would feel much better that the problem was gone, even if not everything I would personally do, was done.
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Offline JWRacedog

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Re: Transfer Issue
« Reply #6 on: December 18, 2015, 04:22:17 PM »
Jan is at extension 110.  If Mike is in DND mode and Jan tries to transfer a call to him, the call bounces back to her. 

Somewhere in the preferences of Mikes phone maybe there is a DND set route going to Jan.  In all of our systems I have never fooled with that---don't even know where it is.  Maybe Brayton does.  I don't see anything in my 9212L down here in RGV as far as Preferences.

What about prescences on Mikes phone?  Any odd routing ?  Is he always "In Office"?

That screen shot shows me that there is some sort of "unholy alliance" between 110 & 111.
It once took me and a tech about an hour to figure out extension/name/MACs etc problems in a system that we took over.  They had been switching phones and partially doing name changes,  What a mess.
 
If I were you, see if you can work something out with Hacky--get a second opinion.  He can get in there are possibly see somethng odd.  If there isn't somethng that makes that 111 go back to 110 in programming---I'd take a look at upgrading.  Yep---I can read English.  I just can't understand why a known fix that would take 5-10 minutes of remote programming is "off the table".  I guess the customer is just afraid---but the Allworx is designed to be upgraded.  It is a natural maintenance procedure.  It's easy and fast.  In this situation, they're looking at going from a version that is KNOWN to be buggy and possibly unstable--to the next fix which is KNOWN to have been remidial.  It isn't even a major upgrade,  It's just going to a better version.  Even in the Comdial DX80 world of the 90's, there were good. stable versions and "buggy" versions of software.  The Allworx upgrades are designed to fix problems, help with better defenses against DOS attacks, and easier programming for the technicians---plus added features.  Many of the upgrades are free.  We have taken over some 6Xs with 3 years of free upgrades---and the customer didn't even know it. 

Allworx 7.5 would be a major upgrade.  A lot of changes to that one, I think.  Running an Allworx for 6-7 years without any upgrades is like running a new car for 6-7 years and saying "I will never put any oil, or fluid of any kind in this car---just gas.  I will never have a mechanic replace anything."  OK. I guess, but I'd like to see how that works out. I have a car that's 15 years old.  Runs like a top.  Everything works.  It sees a mechanic about every 4-6 months.  Trust me---it wouldn't work good if I just put gas in it. :066:




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Online MacGyver

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Re: Transfer Issue
« Reply #7 on: December 18, 2015, 08:02:27 PM »
Thanks for the insight, gentlemen.  Mick, it's great to see you online.  I hope you're enjoying the weather down near the DMZ.  Please don't feed the aliens.  :011:

Brayton, thanks for the offer.  You're certainly a valued resource on these systems.  I'm not the primary on this one or I would have already had you in the programming.  I do know there are clearance issues though so I'll have to check with the powers that be.

Mick you touched on something that I think may be of importance.  You said, They had been switching phones and partially doing name changes,  What a mess.
 I think at one time Jan and Mike's phones were swapped to troubleshoot another bug.  Could there have been some setting left uncorrected?

The question is obviously on everyone's mind so I'll inquire further.  I believe there is also a distance issue and costs of sending a tech to rebuild the system.  My hunch alert, however, tells me Mick may be hot on the trail. :054:
-I'm only here because my flux capacitor is broken.

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Re: Transfer Issue
« Reply #8 on: December 21, 2015, 11:59:30 AM »
Brayton, I'm still trying to get corroborating information on the 3+ transfer.  Jan claimed she has done that, but she was asked to try it again.  With it being Christmas we may not get a good answer back until next week. I'm also seeing if we can get approval to take you up on your very generous offer to look at the system.

Mick, I really think you may be on to something.  A while back Jan and Mike's phones were defaulted and swapped using the swap feature.  Should there have been anything done beyond that to insure a clean transition?

Thanks, gentlemen.
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Re: Transfer Issue
« Reply #9 on: December 22, 2015, 12:48:39 PM »
Hey Mick,

One other question:

I just can't understand why a known fix that would take 5-10 minutes of remote programming is "off the table". 

I must really be missing something.  Wouldn't an upgrade like that require upgrading the firmware on every phone in the place?  If so how would that be done remotely?  Plus doesn't the backup have to be done on site?

Thanks again for the help. :054:
-I'm only here because my flux capacitor is broken.

Offline JWRacedog

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Re: Transfer Issue
« Reply #10 on: December 23, 2015, 09:56:23 AM »
OK..Now I understand the reluctance.

1.  Firmware upgrades are done automatically when upgrading---the phones usually start blinking------then go back to normal.  Brayton can give you more, precise detail about what goes on in this procedure.
2.  I don't know how they do it, but that's the way the Allworx is designed.  Again, Brayton would know more of the details.
3.  Backups are generally done remotely.  We backup our customers systems remotely as a general maintenance procedure.  Brayton knows the details.

Nothing is 100%.  But people still get out of bed, start up the furnace, light the stove, drive, etc ......

Brayton does most all of our upgrades remotely----sometimes after hours but at times, we've done quite a few during the day.

Jumping to a major upgrade version, where there are some really significant feature changes are a bit tricky, I'm told, but so far in about 10 years of being a dealer, we haven't had a problem.  But again, nothing is 100%.

He makes sure that there is a recent back-up and if there isn't he does one before any upgrade

The Allworx engineers (most coming from Eastman Kodak and Xerox) have done a pretty good job of making things upgradable but simple in operation.  It's one of the main reasons we are dealers.

I suggest you talk to Brayton.  He'll have the answers for you. :066:
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Re: Transfer Issue
« Reply #11 on: December 23, 2015, 10:00:15 AM »
Thanks, Mick.  

You mentioned something above about swaps and name changes causing issues.  I did confirm that the phones belonging to Mike and Jan were indeed swapped not too long ago and it was done using the swap feature.  Is there anything that should have been done beyond that to insure a clean transition?
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Offline JWRacedog

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Re: Transfer Issue
« Reply #12 on: December 23, 2015, 10:38:45 AM »
I don't really know what the "swap feature" is.  But I know that if the customer did it...or a tech (I.T.) did it....they probably only filled out half of the entries.  It's a common mistake.  My thinking right now is to check the MAC addresses, then re-do the programming.  Off the top of my head, there are three categories that have to be changed and in the one, there are several blocks to fill out with the correct name.  Most don't realize that and "Mike" is both "Jan" and "Mike" depending on what is transpiring. 

I'll take a look at our programming to see for sure what I'm talking about.
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Offline JWRacedog

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Re: Transfer Issue
« Reply #13 on: December 23, 2015, 10:50:51 AM »
Make sure in "Handsets"---"Modify"----for each phone, that all of the fields are correctly filled in.
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Offline hacky

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Re: Transfer Issue
« Reply #14 on: December 24, 2015, 11:50:18 AM »
Mick is correct - Upgrades can occur 100% remotely.   I can push the firmware updates to the phones automatically without anyone needing to visit the phones to push buttons. This applies to remote phones as well as ones in the office. The phones will blink for a couple of minutes and then restart themselves. The phones might spend a minute asking if the upgrade should occur, but if I use the push option the phones will eventually answer yes by themselves and upgrade themselves, reboot, and come online. 

I can also do remote officesafe backups/restores as I have configured a server for that purpose.  So before anything is touched, an image of the compact flash card is made.  This is good operating procedure.   I have yet to need officesafe after an upgrade.

Thanks for keeping us in the loop !

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Donovan Telephone Consulting & Repair