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Offline Keighlar

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Allworx Question
« on: September 04, 2015, 07:31:12 AM »
Has anyone heard of this happening on an Allworx 6x?

We are still encountering a phone issue.  Heather and Jennifer were both out of the office the other day so I was responsible for the phones.  I was talking to Mark in his office and the phone rang.  Mark tried to pick it up but nobody was on the other line.  Then I heard someone saying hello from Heather’s speaker phone.  Remember, Heather was not there.  Heather’s speaker phone had picked up the line and the person calling was saying “hello, hello”, etc. 

(Names have been changed to protect the innocent.  :064:)

This is the second time in a couple of years that the customer has experienced this issue.
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Offline JWRacedog

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #1 on: September 04, 2015, 07:59:36 AM »
What model of Allworx ?  6X ?  24X ?  48X ?  What software are they running?  What models of phones are involved ?  What type of outside lines do they have--POTS ?  SIP?  PRI ?  Do you have the information to remotely access system ? 
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Offline Keighlar

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #2 on: September 04, 2015, 08:18:20 AM »
I have to run out of the office for awhile, but here are the answers to your questions:
System: 6x
Software Version: 7.4.10.5
Phones: All 9212s
Lines:  Time Warner POTs
I do have remote access to the system.

Any insight would be greatly appreciated.  :064:
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Offline JWRacedog

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #3 on: September 04, 2015, 04:07:09 PM »
Sounds like an update in software would help.  7.4.10 is about 3 years old.  The 6x is at  8.0.10.7 now.  The 6x has been replaced by the Connect series of servers, but the 6x is still being supported and still being upgraded at this time.  7.5 software was an important upgrade, allowing for support for Allworx Reach, a SIP mobility application for cell phones.

Since it only happened a few times, it doesn't seem to be a big thing, but ft the same set of circumstances (what ever they may be) occur again, then the same thing is going to happen.  That's what these upgrades are all about.

It could be a particular setting of some sort (like an auto answer).  Or it could be something that the caller dialed in an auto attendant scenario, or it could be..........  Well, you get the drift.

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Offline Keighlar

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #4 on: September 06, 2015, 08:09:59 PM »
Sorry I never got back to you on Friday. I was out of the office and never made it back.  I can talk to them about an upgrade, but I believe it's happened on two different software versions. It's one of those ghosts in the machine that's nearly impossible to figure out, but that the customer is adamant be addressed. Thank you for your thoughts, and I'll see where they would like to go regarding the upgrade. Since we only maintain the Allworx at this time, and do not actively install them, upgrades haven't been pushed very hard. In this case it may be the first attempt at a fix, though. Thank you, again!
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Offline JWRacedog

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #5 on: September 08, 2015, 04:51:21 AM »
There are some Release Notes (PDFs) that I can email to you if you want.   Let me know.  You've got my number. 
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Offline Keighlar

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #6 on: October 06, 2015, 12:24:29 PM »
This cropped back up again today. I apologize about not getting in touch over the past few weeks, but I have been ridiculously busy, and this kind of took a back seat. Now it's back again, and on my plate for today. I don't know if you're available, but if I can't get an answer from Tech Support, I may try to call. Thank you!
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Offline Keighlar

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #7 on: October 10, 2015, 02:21:59 PM »
I talked to Tech Support, and they're at a loss. They want me to upgrade, which I'll do as a last resort. It's only affecting one phone, so I'm going over on Tuesday to default two phones and swap them. We'll see if the issue persists, and if so, if it follows the port or stays with the user.
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Offline telemarv

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #8 on: October 10, 2015, 06:17:31 PM »
Tipical Allworx T/S doesn't want to talk to you unless you're running the latest software version.

Are you using the Allworx as the router? DHCP?

Step one: would be to move to a different switchport.
Step two: if running DHCP, unplug the phone, reboot the allworx, then plug in the phone. It should then have a different IP address.
If the above doesn't work change the phone.
If that doesn't work, it's the allworx server.
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Offline Keighlar

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #9 on: October 10, 2015, 10:29:47 PM »
Are you using the Allworx as the router? DHCP?

We are not and the phones are static. TS always wants to upgrade as a FIRST resort. Drives me NUTS.
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Offline telemarv

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #10 on: October 11, 2015, 06:55:03 AM »
Try unplugging the phones and pinging the IPs, If you get an answer from one of the IPs you have a conflict. You problem may also be switch related.
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Online MacGyver

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #11 on: October 11, 2015, 09:57:54 AM »
Stacey, I may have an idea on this, and the fact that it has survived firmware upgrades really adds credence to what I'm thinking.  I think Marv and I are headed in the same general direction, and I tried to type it all in, but it's a bit abstract. 

If you'll remind me when we talk later, I think I can explain it better in person.
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Offline hacky

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #12 on: October 11, 2015, 10:39:20 PM »
JW asked me to chime in here.   FWIW, static-configured phones on a flat network drives me nuts.  It's better to allow the Allworx to DHCP the phones, keep Allworx on its own subnet, and use the voice VLAN to keep the DHCP from leaking over to the data network. But, that's a discussion for another day.

Definitely check for IP conflicts. The conflict can "come and go" based on when a NIC went online and updated the arp table in the switch.  Even though you're not running DHCP on Allworx, click on DHCP under Servers.  Look at the Known Hosts table.  This is the arp table; what do you see?   Make sure your handsets IP addresses are mapped to Allworx mac addresses. They typically begin with the octets 00-0A.    Make sure there are no foreign mac addresses.  If you see any, you definitely have a conflict and the data network's DHCP server handed out an address to a host you already statically assigned.

Perform the tests suggested with unplugging the phones and ping their address(es).   If you get replies, you'll need to adjust your data network DHCP server to be out of scope of your static assignments.  If you have a nice switch, you can also check the arp table in the switch and see if you notice any non-Allworx mac addresses pointing to an IP address that should really be a phone.  If you have a Cisco switch, see if you can check the arp aging time as it can be so long as to prevent the troubleshooting described here.

If you don't have any conflicts, zero in on the key assignments on the troubled phone. Study the ring types and compare to the handsets that work perfectly to see if you see any discrepancies.

With all that said, once in a while a bug does show up in the software. But that's not my gut feeling here.

Allworx pushes upgrades on people mainly due to patching up attacks aimed at the SIP port. If you don't let SIP through your firewall and you're not running a buggy version, there is little reason to upgrade, except to support new handsets, keep Allworx happy, or get tech support.
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Online MacGyver

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #13 on: October 11, 2015, 11:30:53 PM »
Welcome to the board hacky.  Any friend of Mick's is a welcome addition.  You now have Tech level access, so you should see the private forums.  

Thanks for the added info on this case.  I'm sure Stacey will appreciate it when she goes back on site this week.

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Offline Keighlar

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #14 on: October 12, 2015, 08:18:08 AM »
JW asked me to chime in here.   FWIW, static-configured phones on a flat network drives me nuts.  It's better to allow the Allworx to DHCP the phones, keep Allworx on its own subnet, and use the voice VLAN to keep the DHCP from leaking over to the data network. But, that's a discussion for another day.

Thank you for your assistance.

We did not configure the network; though we do administer it now. There are only 8 phones on the system and though we often hear that DHCP is preferred in almost all VoIP set-ups, I've personally battled far too many odd issues that were "fixed" by setting a phone statically. So... if there are less that 10 phones, we will very often set them static proactively.  This network is flat. They have an SA520 handing out DHCP with the range beginning at 192.168.1.150

Definitely check for IP conflicts. The conflict can "come and go" based on when a NIC went online and updated the arp table in the switch.  Even though you're not running DHCP on Allworx, click on DHCP under Servers.  Look at the Known Hosts table.  This is the arp table; what do you see?   Make sure your handsets IP addresses are mapped to Allworx mac addresses. They typically begin with the octets 00-0A.    Make sure there are no foreign mac addresses.  If you see any, you definitely have a conflict and the data network's DHCP server handed out an address to a host you already statically assigned.

I am most definitely not a network guru, though I usually know enough to keep myself out of trouble. That said, I've not worked with the Known Hosts in the past. I'm seeing all the phones properly assigned to their MAC addresses, but I'm also seeing four laptops (including my own) on the 192.168.2.x subnet, which I'm assuming is from our office's remote connections. The names associated with these laptops are all techs from here.

There are three additional entries on the 192.168.2.x subnet that look like Allworx phone MAC addresses, but are labelled SIPxxxxxx (the last 6 digits of the MAC address). They are all in the 192.168.2.x range which makes me believe they are running over the VPN to Florida.

None of these create conflicts with their phone or system IP addresses and that is the entirety of the hosts table.

Perform the tests suggested with unplugging the phones and ping their address(es).   If you get replies, you'll need to adjust your data network DHCP server to be out of scope of your static assignments.  If you have a nice switch, you can also check the arp table in the switch and see if you notice any non-Allworx mac addresses pointing to an IP address that should really be a phone.  If you have a Cisco switch, see if you can check the arp aging time as it can be so long as to prevent the troubleshooting described here.

I did just confirm that the DHCP scope is indeed out of range.  We checked logging on the switch and saw no reports of IP conflicts.

If you don't have any conflicts, zero in on the key assignments on the troubled phone. Study the ring types and compare to the handsets that work perfectly to see if you see any discrepancies.

Her key pattern look just like the others. Please see the attachment below.

With all that said, once in a while a bug does show up in the software. But that's not my gut feeling here.

Allworx pushes upgrades on people mainly due to patching up attacks aimed at the SIP port. If you don't let SIP through your firewall and you're not running a buggy version, there is little reason to upgrade, except to support new handsets, keep Allworx happy, or get tech support.

I'll upgrade if I have to, but with this customer it would have to be after-hours. This is not a system we work on often any more, so it's not likely to be a quick and painless procedure.

Again, thank you for your assistance, and at very least, it forced me to go get a better understanding of the network configuration that I'm walking in to. I have to go onsite tomorrow, and at this point it still looks like my next step should be to default and swap phones to see if the issue follows the phone or stays with the user/IP address.

I'll let you know what I find and if you have anything else you think I should look at first, please do not hesitate to let me know.  :064:
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Offline hacky

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2015, 04:33:38 PM »
Under Phone System, could you click on Shared Appearances and confirm nothing out of the ordinary is defined in there?   If that extension is assigned a line appearance that is assigned as a shared appearance, such as an Executive/Secretary arrangement, unexpected behavior may occur.  It's been a while since I've tried that programming that but it's definitely worth checking.

Confirm also that DHCP in the Allworx server is disabled.  Even if the lease scopes between it and your data network were kept perfectly separate, they are on the same broadcast domain, and you'll still get weird behavior, DHCP conflicts, and you'll see  warning messages in the System Events that there is a duplicate DHCP server. Rely totally on your normal DHCP server for operations but keep your local Allworx handsets static.  You should be able to leave the remote handsets alone as they will either use DHCP from the other site, or be pure static on a site-to-site VPN.   If you absolutely need DHCP from the Allworx too, the network demands that you set up a voice VLAN at that point.

After all that, I too would upgrade to at least the next minor revision, which should include fixes to major bugs.

The arp table sounds correct.   Allworx will add entries to it when it sees an arp broadcast. On a flat network you'll see other hosts like laptops.

Thanks everybody for the warm welcome !

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Offline Keighlar

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2015, 06:55:58 PM »
DHCP is definitely disabled in the Allworx. I double-checked that this morning. I don't have a Shared Appearance option.  Is it Call Monitor in this version?  If so - it's at default.  Thank you!   :064:

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Offline JWRacedog

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #17 on: October 12, 2015, 07:03:44 PM »
Yep.  When you take over a system and you haven't installed the network, it can be a bit frustrating and time-consuming to find out the cause of a problem.  However, this is why we recommend software upgrades, too.

The cost of a yearly upgrade key can be minor compared to the hours that a goofy problem can suck up in tech (on site) time, remote time---or just research time. Now, don't get me wrong---we don't do what I am preaching here all the time, even though we try our best and it's a real push to keep even a small percentage of our Allworx systems on the latest software.  Most of ours are 3 years to 2 years old---but we try to keep somewhat current because the major (feature) upgrades take a bit of time and if you have several major upgrades, plus all of the minor one, it becomes more of a hassle than if it's just upgrades for 2 years, or so.

With that being said----I have NEVER had a real problem with upgrades being time consuming nor complex.  9 years ago, the process seemed to be much harder, but they have streamlined a lot of it and even rebooting the phones isn't that difficult---but you've got to be working with some newer software.

In your situation----the first up-tic to the upgrade might solve a few bugs that the customer never even knew was there. However---last week, we upgraded just to a minor version (customer had it coming free) and when there was a person in the queue, the phones would immediately give a short burst.  It never did that before the upgrade.  We found out that a "courtesy ring" that could be toggled on or off in a queue situation was included  as one of the minor feature upgrades---unbeknownst to us.  We just reprogrammed some ringing and we were fine---my point being---this is what happens, sometimes, even in small upgrade patches.

I'm off my soapbox, now.  The advantages to Allworx 6X upgrades in my opinion far outweigh any disadvantages.  I still have an open mind, though.  :011:
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Offline hacky

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #18 on: October 12, 2015, 08:57:22 PM »
In older software, there is no Shared Call Appearance area.  It was all done by adding other Call Appearance PFK's to the phone, and programming the Call Route to ring the shared sets in parallel.  So as long as there is none of that in your Call Route and no Call Appearances for other extensions programmed as PFKs,  there are no shared appearances configured.

Call Monitors are an efficient way to ring a bunch of phones at once using only one SIP resource. Downside is you don't get the calling party info on the screen of the phones, instead you get the name of the Call Monitor that was programmed from your screen shot.  To ring a bunch of phones and still get the calling party info, you have to ring them directly from the Call Route which consumes one SIP resource per handset, and is highly inefficient.
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Offline JWRacedog

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #19 on: October 12, 2015, 10:44:55 PM »
To ring extensions, I always do it from a virtual extension e.g. ext 200.  You might take a look at the extension list to see if they have any virtual extensions and see how they are set up to ring and the call routes etc.  Just a thought.
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Offline Keighlar

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #20 on: October 13, 2015, 10:20:12 AM »
I have successfully swapped the phones for now to see if the issue follows the physical phone or remains with the user. The customer does not want to upgrade unless they have to. If the issue remains with the user, we will upgrade as the next troubleshooting step.

Thank you all for your assistance. I'll keep you posted!
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Offline JWRacedog

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #21 on: October 13, 2015, 11:09:55 AM »
Yep.  Good Luck.  Hope it works.
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Offline hacky

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #22 on: October 14, 2015, 12:51:01 AM »
I saw from your other topic you might be running 7.4.10.5.   That build has bugs and was pulled by Allworx.   You need to be on at least 7.4.19.2 to be even on what's considered stable 7.4.   There is no charge to upgrade minor builds / revisions.  There is no reason, whatsoever, in the universe to be on a pulled build.

Again, there is no charge.  Run an officesafe backup first and do the upgrade.
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Offline Keighlar

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Re: Allworx Question
« Reply #23 on: October 14, 2015, 07:10:47 AM »
There may be no charge for the upgrade software, but there is to the customer for our after-hours service. They do not want to upgrade unless they have to.They have been running this build for a couple of years with no other issues. I will certainly upgrade if this doesn't fix it.

Thank you for the information.
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