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Offline bluzman

  • Technician
  • Location: Hiawatha, KS.
  • Posts: 164
Low Volume
« on: May 09, 2013, 01:09:32 PM »
Greetings Folks- Not being much of a paging tech, I'm stumped. I am working on a paging system in a manufacturing plant. It has been in place for years and has been worked on by many. There are at least 12 existing horns (some amplified, some not) throughout the plant. They are pushed by a Clarity 100W paging amp. I was asked to install a speaker in their breakroom, so I ran a 4 conductor shielded 24g cable from an existing amplified horn into the breakroom. Cable is probably 100' long. Spliced the W/BL pair, in parallel, to existing cable, hooked said pair to black/yellow (4w) tap of transformer attached to Bogen wall-mount (with faux wood grain & black grill) speaker. No volume. Took speaker to amp and attached to 70V output of amp, with existing wiring in place and could hear speaker fine with volume maxed out. God only knows what condition existing wiring and horns are in, although I have replaced several horns with what was originally installed.

Thanks for assistance!! :022:
Jeffrey N Lusk
Rainbow Communications
Hiawatha, KS.

Offline MrGemini

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    • GO HAWKS!
Re: Low Volume
« Reply #1 on: May 09, 2013, 03:06:10 PM »
Jeff, combining amplified and non amplified horns is common to find from DIY and always a nightmare.  :002:
It sounds as though you took the "line in" from an amplified speaker and tied it into the 25/70 V transformer of
a non amplified, 25 or 70 volt speaker.  That's a no no. For the speaker you have you will have to tap into the
70 volt output from the amp.
----------------------------------
Wayne

Online hbiss

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Re: Low Volume
« Reply #2 on: May 09, 2013, 03:58:37 PM »
Or get an amplified speaker.

-Hal
I gotta get out of this business...

COMSYSTEC- Phone Systems | paging systems | background music systems | foreground music systems | retail music | restaurant music

Online silversam

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  • Location: NYC
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Re: Low Volume
« Reply #3 on: May 09, 2013, 09:32:15 PM »
I would also recommend against running shielded wire for speakers. Unless you've got a serious interference problems then you're better off with stranded unshielded wire.

Sam

Offline bluzman

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  • Location: Hiawatha, KS.
  • Posts: 164
Re: Low Volume
« Reply #4 on: May 13, 2013, 01:40:03 PM »
Thanks Gentlemen- I appreciate the input. I had amplified horns on the shelf, but that would blow then out of the room. My main vendor helped me to find an amplified wall-mount speaker to hang, so hopefully that will solve this problem. It hasn't got here yet, so I don't know. Again, thanks to all!!
Jeffrey N Lusk
Rainbow Communications
Hiawatha, KS.

Online hbiss

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  • Location: Westchester County, NY
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Re: Low Volume
« Reply #5 on: May 13, 2013, 02:57:51 PM »
Quote
I had amplified horns on the shelf, but that would blow then out of the room.

There should be a volume control on them. But if this is something like an office type room then you are correct in using a cone type speaker, either in the ceiling or on the wall.

-Hal
I gotta get out of this business...

COMSYSTEC- Phone Systems | paging systems | background music systems | foreground music systems | retail music | restaurant music

Offline bluzman

  • Technician
  • Location: Hiawatha, KS.
  • Posts: 164
Re: Low Volume
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2013, 05:11:17 PM »
 :016: Thanks Hal, I just got back from said customers plant. I hung a Valcom wall-mount self-amplified spkr. w/ volume control. Worked beautifully. I tend to overthink these situations after listening to some of you talk paging. 70V, 24V, 8 & 16 ohm drops, watts of power, direction of speakers, impedence....etc....

It's not just hanging speakers. I'm a one-man show at this shop, so there is no-one to go to for advise. I utilize this forum and one of our vendors for advise. So don't ever under estimate the significance you all make in some of our lives. A little SAPPY, but true. Thanks again!! :022:
Jeffrey N Lusk
Rainbow Communications
Hiawatha, KS.

Offline MrGemini

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  • Location: Elmhurst, IL.
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    • GO HAWKS!
Re: Low Volume
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2013, 06:36:20 PM »
It's not just hanging speakers. I'm a one-man show at this shop, so there is no-one to go to for advise. I utilize this forum and one of our vendors for advise. So don't ever under estimate the significance you all make in some of our lives. A little SAPPY, but true. Thanks again!! :022:
That's why were here Jeff! :003:
Personally, I've always considered PA systems to be nice profitable gigs. BUT, that's selling and installing.
Servicing ones that you didn't put in can sometimes be a nightmare!
--------------------------
Wayne

Online hbiss

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Re: Low Volume
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2013, 09:12:40 PM »
Quote
Servicing ones that you didn't put in can sometimes be a nightmare!

I think in that respect sound systems are even worse than phones when it comes to hacks. Over at the sound forums we just had someone ask about installing a sound system for a large restaurant/bar that included live entertainment as well as background music and the audio from the TVs. He was asked by the general contractor to do the work. When we asked about his qualifications, surprise surprise. He runs an IT company and has experience running network cabling. I don't know whose dumber, the GC who thinks this is the guy for the job or the IT "professional" who thinks he can pull this off.

The only way to service many of these abortions is to start from scratch. You would be surprised at the places where you would think the owners would have known better (like schools and churches) but fell for the "I can do it for less" sales pitch.

-Hal
I gotta get out of this business...

COMSYSTEC- Phone Systems | paging systems | background music systems | foreground music systems | retail music | restaurant music

Online silversam

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Re: Low Volume
« Reply #9 on: May 16, 2013, 08:45:21 AM »
In the early '70s I worked for an Intercom/PA/BGM company in NYCs Garment Center. I remember being asked to look over a job that had been installed by someone else. The customer wanted us to maintain it.

The job was a nightmare. Horrible, horrible work!

When the customer asked me what I thought of the job and what we would need to do to take it over my response was:

"How long have you been in the Garment Center?"

"40 years" was his answer.

"Then you'll understand what I'm going to tell you" I said. "You should have a fire."

We didn't take the job. Nothing short of a complete rip out and new install would have worked.

Having written this, I don't know if it will make much sense to younger folks and non-New Yorkers. Let me then explain that in those days the Garment Center was where 95% of all the clothes worn in America were designed, sewn and sold. It was full of conniving individuals who thought nothing of burning down their establishments for the insurance money whenever they could.

Sorry for the ramblings of a doddering, drooling old fool. As The Boss said, nothing left for us old guys but memories of "Glory Days."


Sam

Online hbiss

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  • Location: Westchester County, NY
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Re: Low Volume
« Reply #10 on: May 16, 2013, 12:39:01 PM »
Quote
It was full of conniving individuals who thought nothing of burning down their establishments for the insurance money whenever they could.

And starting up again with another sweat shop as soon as the check cleared. :022:

-Hal
I gotta get out of this business...

COMSYSTEC- Phone Systems | paging systems | background music systems | foreground music systems | retail music | restaurant music