Book em' Danno! Burping in gym class 1.

[hbiss]

Our schools are so pathetic that they can't even maintain discipline and call the cops to do it for them. What ever happened to the dean of students or the assistant principal?

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories/U/US_HANDCUFFING_STUDENTS?SITE=AP&SECTION=HOME&TEMPLATE=DEFAULT&CTIME=2012-04-18-12-33-04

-Hal

[MooreTel]

Blame the lawmakers.  You really can't blame the educators at all.   The educators more & more have to protect themselves against law suits from ignorant parents who would never admit that their little darling Billy Bubba would do such a thing.  Heavens no!

Here, a few years ago a couple of high school students beat up a teacher on school grounds and the cops wouldn't/couldn't do anything about it.  So if I understand Hal correctly, yeah, bring back corporal punishment in schools,.  Failing that, expel them for the balance of the year AND with no guarantee of their re-admittance the following year.

[hbiss]

There isn't only one reason for this. One is the lawyers then there is no protection for teachers under the law. Teachers are prohibited from even touching a student because it could result in an accusation that will ruin their life even if proven wrong. Teachers also have lowered themselves to the same level as the students by trying to be their friends instead of an authority and that's where the lose respect.

I'm not for corporal punishment, nobody should have the hell beat out of them. But I see no reason that schools can't have their own security that's there to handle kids, with force if necessary, that don't respond to a teacher's orders or disciplinary action.

Teachers themselves need some sort of immunity from accusations and law suits brought against them in their course of work. You can't maintain discipline if the kids have more rights than you do.

-Hal

[JordonJ]

Well said Hal, I looked into teaching and worked as a Sub for awhile, and there is almost no discipline amongst the kids. There is this one kid in our neighborhood who is a troublemaker.  However, if anyone lays a hand on him his parents immediately call the cops on them because he's autistic (he's also a brat whose parents think he can do no wrong). We have to call the cops if he comes around making trouble as there is nothing we can do about it (he refuses to listen to adults and blatantly flips people off).

[MooreTel]

I'm not for corporal punishment, nobody should have the hell beat out of them.

-Hal

There's a HUGE difference between corporal punishment and beating the hell out of them.

You can't maintain discipline if the kids have more rights than you do.
-Hal

Exactly my point.

[hbiss]

There's a HUGE difference between corporal punishment and beating the hell out of them.

Well, when I was in school back in the 60's, and particularly if you attended an all male Catholic high school there was no difference.

-Hal

[hitechcomm]

Say anything you want, but don't pick on Billy Bubba..............

[hbiss]

I think the reason for deferring to the police is because the teachers and schools are afraid of the liability. At the first sign of trouble let the police handle it and let them take the heat from the parents and their attorneys.

-Hal

[CMDL_GUY]

I think the reason for deferring to the police is because the teachers and schools are afraid of the liability. At the first sign of trouble let the police handle it and let them take the heat from the parents and their attorneys.

-Hal

Exactly, my oldest is the head of the language department for her school system and they have every educator at every level afraid of lawsuits from parents. A lot of the fear comes from the teachers unions who provide the lawyers for the teachers. Why teachers need unions is beyond me!  When I was in school and got in trouble, I did everything possible to keep Mom and Dad from knowing about it. Well that was more than a half century ago, times have really changed! 

[Marc Haycook]

[Keighlar]

My degree is in Secondary English Education.  There is a reason why I did not stay in the education field...

[hbiss]

You wanted to avoid jail time right?

-Hal

[mdaniel]

Exactly!

Kids today are not taught respect at home, because everyone thinks that their little Johnny or Mary is the greatest gift to mankind and is entitled to be the next Einstein.

My grade school days where in the 70's, and when I got my little ass busted at school by the teacher (and shamefully that happened all to often) the teacher would call my parents and I would get my ass busted again when I got home.

[Keighlar]

You wanted to avoid jail time right?

-Hal

LOL!! In actuality, it was because I wanted to be a teacher, but my hands were tied.  If I gave a detention, it had to go to COMMITTEE before the student actually had to serve it.  By the time it was approved weeks later - no one even remembered what it was for.  My car was vandalized in the parking lot with no repercussions.  I had books and desks thrown at me in the classroom, and the student wasn't even disciplined.  The school is afraid of the parents, and the parents are afraid of their kids, and the teachers are caught at the bottom of that sludge heap.

The final straw was sitting in on the end-of-year meeting of the teachers of the grade I was teaching (7th at the time).  There were rules on the books about what classes the students needed to pass in order to be promoted to the next grade.  There were a good number of students that did not meet those requirements.  That's when the haggling began.  "We should pass Johnny because he's just too big to still be in 7th grade."  "Suzy should really pass on because she was quite close to passing XYZ."  This went on for hours until less than a handful of students were actually held back and made to adhere to the known standards.

All this might have been understandable if it were  done with good intentions, but one of the teachers let a comment slip that I could not get out of my head... "Let's just pass him on and let the High School deal with him." 

Add to that the fact that I did not believe in tenure, that teachers should have to be able to prove themselves all the time, and I was quite unpopular with both the teaching and administrative staffs.  My world view just did not fit in with the public education system.

[CMDL_GUY]

My world view just did not fit in with the public education system.

Same here,  why our population wants even more government involvement in their lives is beyond me!

[anthonyh]

My wife is an inner city public school teacher and a damn good one, her raises will soon be based on her kids test scores. I see a ton of stuff wrong with this but here is the biggest.  PARENTS ARE NOT HELD RESPONISBLE AT ALL! learning starts and ends at home teachers mearly lay the foundation, but when parents cant or dont help the kids its a lost cost, reinforcment at home is a huge part of learning.  The sad thing is like every thing else the goverment touches they will not address to root cause and only blame the easiest target.

What I see happening due to this policy is good teachers will be leaving and lookiing for better districts, leaving inner city schools straped for quilifed people, hell i see it happening already

 

As far as discipline, teachers hands are tied, everyone is affriad of being sued or fired.  Every little incident needs to be reported and monitored.  Its to the point she is considering a career change

[hbiss]

I also have all kinds of problems with this new evaluation system. It places the blame entirely on the teachers without giving any consideration to the type of students they are given. If a kid doesn't want to learn and the parents couldn't care less how is that the teacher's fault?

I'm seeing that the attitude of many parents today is that it's up to the schools to make little Johnny a good student, not them.

-Hal

[mdaniel]

I'm seeing that the attitude of many parents today is that it's up to the schools to make little Johnny a good student, not them.

And there is where the problem starts,...next thing you know little Johnny has Suzy knocked up and we (the honest tax payer) has 3 more mouths to feed.