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Offline liquidvw

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Testimony of Mike Rowe
« on: May 17, 2011, 12:30:42 PM »
A good read. 

link

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #1 on: May 17, 2011, 12:58:40 PM »
A good read indeed! :054:
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

“Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”   -John Adams

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Offline oobie

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #2 on: May 17, 2011, 01:03:56 PM »
Very well but Mike!
Gary Frisco

Offline Kumba

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #3 on: May 17, 2011, 02:24:19 PM »
So THAT is what he looks like in a suite and without a hat. I am shocked and amazed.

Ohh, and I agree. I know plenty people who are 150K in debt with some college degree who aren't employable because they cant/wont do manual labor. Let alone a skilled trade. But I guess if I spent all that money on a degree I would be holding out for a job like that too.

I've worked a lot of jobs so far. Been an inventory clerk, clean-room technician, electronics SMT assembly tech, Machinist, Mechanic, construction laborer, ditch digger, McDonalds "associate", Programmer, etc. My point being is that what I have never been is unemployed for more then 2 weeks.
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Online CMDL_GUY

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #4 on: May 17, 2011, 02:53:14 PM »
So THAT is what he looks like in a suite and without a hat.

He has been on the History Channel forever hosting a show called "The Most" always in a suit and tie.

McDonalds "associate",

Nobody has a plain title anymore, go to a Jiffy Lube and the head grease monkey is called a "Senior Certified Lubrication Technician" :022:
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

“Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”   -John Adams

K4LRM

www.lscg.net

Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money.

Offline Kumba

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #5 on: May 17, 2011, 03:01:03 PM »
Personally I could care less what I'm called. Just make sure the checks keep coming. Always been my view of it.
ViciDial Consulting for Call Centers - I'm one of those Evil Asterisk/VoIP Guys. MBSWWYIPPBX

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #6 on: May 17, 2011, 03:05:55 PM »
Personally I could care less what I'm called. Just make sure the checks keep coming. Always been my view of it.

 :054:
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

“Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”   -John Adams

K4LRM

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Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money.

Offline hbiss

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #7 on: May 17, 2011, 04:45:45 PM »
In high schools, the vocational arts have all but vanished. We've elevated the importance of "higher education" to such a lofty perch that all other forms of knowledge are now labeled "alternative." Millions of parents and kids see apprenticeships and on-the-job-training opportunities as "vocational consolation prizes," best suited for those not cut out for a four-year degree. And still, we talk about millions of "shovel ready" jobs for a society that doesn't encourage people to pick up a shovel.

How many times have I said exactly that? Keep sending your sorry assed kids to college folks. All they learn is entitlement, laziness and attitude then wind up with a $150k loan that their mommy and daddy has to pay because they can't get a job because college grads are a dime a dozen.

Hopefully this depression has taught us a lesson. We can't live off of other people’s money or exploiting others and profiting from it. That's what college has produced and I’ll even go farther to say that it is largely responsible for the mess we are in.

I'm not particularly religious but I am reminded of Mark 11:15 and Jesus throwing out the money changers:

Jesus entered the temple area and drove out all who were buying and selling there. He overturned the tables of the money changers and the benches of those selling doves.

That's what we have created, a generation of money changers whose only skill is making money for themselves any way they can. They should be despised today just as they were despised back in biblical times. We need to get back to basics, back to the 40's and 50's when getting your hands dirty and earning a respectable living was not something the "lower class" did.

Thanks Mike, I couldn’t have said it better!

-Hal 
I gotta get out of this business...

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Offline RATHER BE FISHING

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #8 on: May 17, 2011, 06:08:20 PM »
Get on a ballot somewhere Hal....maybe you can get elected and run the money changers out of DC.

Offline Marc Haycook

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #9 on: May 17, 2011, 06:43:09 PM »
We know the Donald isn't going to run for President, so maybe we can get Mike on the ballet.
Marc Haycook
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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #10 on: May 17, 2011, 06:49:55 PM »
Keep sending your sorry assed kids to college folks. All they learn is entitlement, laziness and attitude then wind up with a $150k loan that their mommy and daddy has to pay because they can't get a job because college grads are a dime a dozen.


Exactly!  College is nothing but a big business anymore. Everyone thinks their kid just has to attend. We have a whole generation who is saddled with debt and no chance of a job. Well, no chance of a job they feel they are entitled too!
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

“Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”   -John Adams

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Offline justbill

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #11 on: May 17, 2011, 07:06:39 PM »
Got a nephew who took up a construction degree, like to be a GC.  The kid doesn't know one end of the hammer from the other.  I talked to a local contractor to see if he could give him some hands on experience, at his mothers request.  The contractor was very willing to help him with his internship and willing to show him the ropes and pay him to boot.  Last I spoke to the contractor our nephew hadn't even called him yet.

They all want to be the boss, no one wants to learn how to actually do the job.

Offline RATHER BE FISHING

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #12 on: May 17, 2011, 07:13:44 PM »
Heard a story yesterday on the way to work about students graduating with a 4 year degree and many had $65,000- $95,000 student loan debt. The jist of the story is that if you get an obscure unusable degree you won't stand a chance of paying off your loans...even with an MBA they are a dime a dozen and the starting wages(if you can find a job) are such that it's tough to pay off loans and maintain some quality of life. I know of a lady working in a restaurant as a server with a Masters in European Literature. She is now also working part time at an attorneys office as an intern and has gone back to school for a law degree. So far in debt I doubt she'll ever see the light of day.

Offline tonyburkhart

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #13 on: May 17, 2011, 09:02:15 PM »
That's an amazing read and a hell of a testimony. Thank you for passing it on!

Thanks,
Tony Burkhart
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Offline Kumba

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #14 on: May 17, 2011, 09:34:38 PM »
They all want to be the boss, no one wants to learn how to actually do the job.

Yeah, that's one reason why I don't hire anyone younger then me. The second reason is they all think they get paid ridiculous money. The third is usually their attitude usually sucks.
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Online Keighlar

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #15 on: May 18, 2011, 07:47:36 AM »
I graduated Magna Cum Laude from college, with a double major and a minor in 4 1/2 years.  I had a ton of scholarships... upwards of $10,000 per year with my first year completely free.  I worked three jobs simultaneously while taking 18+ credit hours at a time.  My parents had no money to help, so the remainder of my schooling came in as loans.  I am now 40 years old, I did not work in my "degreed" field for more than two years, and I still owe more than $12,000 on that loan.  At my present pay grade, I'll be paying that off until I retire.  Fat lot of good my degree did me.

Now I have two children - both will be in Jr. High and High school next year and it's time to start looking at vocations for them.  I always thought that I would INSIST they go to college.  I'm just not sure that's such a good idea anymore.  My eldest likes graphic design.  So maybe community college or simply some technical training?  My younger daughter doesn't know yet, but those bridges will need to be crossed soon. 

So... I was the first person in my family to go to college... and I very well may be the last.  *sigh*
“You know you’re in love when you can’t fall asleep because reality is finally better than your dreams.”
Dr Seuss

Offline anthonyh

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2011, 08:11:01 PM »
I am about to turn 35, I just sent in my last student loan payment.  I worked my ass of to pay for school from day one.  Did everything from landscaping in a cemetery, to cooking, carpentry, phone guy,even worked on the Docks for circle line for a while.  I finally got my degree (no where near  Magna Cum Laude ;O))

I found a decent job which i have worked to to advance in....and to be perfectly honest, I would rather be working anyone of my old jobs, I actually enjoyed going to work, working with my hands,building, fixing, designing, no better feeling then looking back on a job well done and thinking...I did that.

I am not knocking college but I definitley think we need to bring back and emphasize the power of learning a trade. I fully intend to teach my boys everything I can, and yes I want them to get an education but if they want to learn a skill and a trade I will back that as well.
...Please don't touch that

Offline MacGyver

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #17 on: May 22, 2011, 09:55:53 PM »
Stacey two weeks ago I found out an old friend had passed away.  I picked up the phone to call a mutual friend we had to find out what happened.  This friend is a practicing psychologist I'd worked with on cases in family law court over the past 20+ years.  We're not talking about someone who was just barely in the business.  We're talking a PhD with over 30 years in private practice, working on court appointed cases, and even defense contracts.  Things have changed in health care as well as in a lot of business areas that affected his practice.  He told me he is now seeing his cash pay patients two days a week, and working the other five in the electronics department at Wal-Mart as their cell phone person.  Things are changing.  What I thought was interesting was he said "Trace, you would be amazed at how many people we have working in my store with advanced degrees."
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Offline hbiss

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #18 on: May 23, 2011, 09:16:52 AM »
you would be amazed at how many people we have working in my store with advanced degrees...

I was at Home Dumpo a few weeks ago and I could almost cry because I felt so bad. I saw a rather distinguished gentleman, probably in his 50's wearing a white shirt, dress pants and shoes. At first glance I thought he was a customer, but then I noticed the orange apron when he turned around. He was working there. Probably out of work from some profession, the poor guy didn't even have work clothes.

-Hal
I gotta get out of this business...

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Offline MacGyver

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #19 on: May 23, 2011, 06:25:59 PM »
I've seen that recently at HD Hal.  A few months back I was helping an old high school buddy who had a run of bad luck.  He got an old house that was built in about 1916 and had 6 glass fuses running the whole place.  I went over one weekend to rewire the house and we stopped at Home Desperate to get the supplies.  I was scribbling some notes on the cardboard box and randomly babbling about being able to de-rate the neutral line when he interrupted and showed me where my mistake was.  It turned out this guy was a retired electrical engineer who got axed and couldn't make it on what he had put back.  It really is sad.
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Online Keighlar

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2011, 07:34:55 AM »
My father worked at the same place for 30 years.  He started working on the floor, running the line at a paper manufacturing plant straight out of high school.  Over the years, he worked his way into upper management, traveling the world to help out their struggling plants.  He survived four buy-outs, take-overs - whatever you want to call them - where many others were cut out.  Unfortunately, he did not survive this economy.  He was blind-sided when they decided to cut out basically all management.  That was over a year ago now.  He's gone through his unemployment, unsuccessfully attempted two other working positions, and he's still looking for work.  In the mean time, my mother is cleaning houses 3 days a week to try to keep food on the table, and the house I grew up in is in foreclosure. 

Right now, his best prospect is working in the Ace Hardware warehouse.  We're all waiting on pins and needles to see if he will get the position.  Sad, sad state of the world.
“You know you’re in love when you can’t fall asleep because reality is finally better than your dreams.”
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Offline Grider

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2011, 08:12:23 AM »
What's up with the reference to Home Depot as Home Dumpo & Home Desperate? I always considered HD as a pretty good place to go when interested in purchasing certain things. If they stocked pet food, coffee and ground beef I wouldn't go any place else. Couple of gas pumps out on the parking lot would be rather handy too.
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Offline Daytech

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2011, 08:20:58 AM »
If they stocked pet food, coffee and ground beef I wouldn't go any place else.

I had to chuckle to myself on this comment. For those of us who have Menard's home improvement stores in the north, I am amazed at the variety of items one can purchase. I can walk in get a gallon of milk, carton of eggs, sheet of plywood and a toilet all in the same store. They are by far a home improvement store but they do have any area with frozen and refrigerated food.

Todd

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2011, 08:31:11 AM »
What's up with the reference to Home Depot as Home Dumpo & Home Desperate?
It's not just home depot
The big box retailers we all love are getting bigger and more powerful and now have politicians in their pocket. We are about to loose free checking and incur fees on debit cards because of their power.

http://www.foxnews.com/opinion/2011/05/23/like-debit-card-free-checking-account-heres-important-vote-watch/

This is for information only, not to be political about it....now back on topic! :003:


 
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

“Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”   -John Adams

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Offline Skip555

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #24 on: May 24, 2011, 10:55:42 AM »
I hope things work out for your dad and family Stacy , my Dad was in a similar situation getting the shaft from a company that he had  spent 30+years helping to build then was forced out without all the things that had been promised to him   . that made me decided that I wanted to  be self employed

I'm with John on the home depot  bashing
---------------------------------------------
Skip

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Offline Kumba

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #25 on: May 24, 2011, 02:49:07 PM »
My only problem with Home Depot is the people who frequent them. Just like Walmart. Maybe if I when there during the day when the people who do contract work for a living are there I wouldn't hate it so much. But I'm only ever there around like 6-9 or on the weekend with all the weekend warriors.

Only other option is Lowes or Ace. Lowes is just Home depot with different brands and better help. I like Ace whenever I need to just get something and get out.
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Offline hbiss

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #26 on: May 24, 2011, 03:12:31 PM »
What's up with the reference to Home Depot as Home Dumpo & Home Desperate?

Maybe you don't pay attention to the caliber of people who frequent those fine establishments or the people that they hire. Then you might also want to consider their "de-spec'd" products- everything from plumbing to locksets to power tools to crap paint that they sell to the cheapo DIY's and trunkers. If you think the Kohler, Schlage, Milwaukee, Purdy brushes, etc are the same as what regular suppliers carry you are in for a surprise.

Yeah, there are some pros that purchase there but they know what they are looking for and know what to stay away from. If I go there for some 2x4s I go through the whole square to find 25 straight ones for instance.

This is not to say that you can't find things there that you can use. Just do your shopping at 7:30AM or 9PM when all the dregs are either sleeping or watching Celibrity Dance Challenge.

-Hal

 
I gotta get out of this business...

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Online CMDL_GUY

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #27 on: May 24, 2011, 03:26:08 PM »
I like Ace whenever I need to just get something and get out.

I agree James, the thing I hate most about Lowes and Home Depot are the employees that keep asking "can I help you?"  If I pass 10 employees then I'm asked 10 times "can I help you?" I also hate every employee saying "hi" every time they pass you. I really get tired of saying "hi" or "no thank you" over and over everytime I walk into one of those places. They seem to always have 20 some employees lurking in the isles waiting to pounce on you, but try to find one of them when you areready to check-out. 
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

“Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”   -John Adams

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Offline Grider

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #28 on: May 24, 2011, 04:28:48 PM »
Quote
If I go there for some 2x4s I go through the whole square to find 25 straight ones for instance.

Damn! Them southern boys at Georgia Pacific are up to their old tricks again. Warped chit=North of Mason Dixon line, Good straight pine goes to Floriduh and Texas.

Hal, you are unfortunately an intelligent man among a large population of others that don't know quality wood. :008:
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Offline mdaniel

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #29 on: May 24, 2011, 08:58:45 PM »
Coming in a little late on this one but, some of the wealthiest people I know, doesn't even have a high school diploma.
Two different ones that come to mind, own their own Banks, but don't have a HS diploma. Heck one of them didn't even finish grade school, and he is now one of the wealthiest men in east Ky.

I'm a firm believer in higher education, but unless it is applied with common sense, it's nothing more than a sheet of paper.

I have said it before and will say it again, "The ability to make money has nothing to do with your education", but only with your work ethic and determination.
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Offline MacGyver

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #30 on: May 24, 2011, 10:01:58 PM »
Hal I had one other thought on the gentleman you met at HD.  Based on your description of his dress and age, the clothes may have just reflected his work ethic. 

As for Home Desperate, I really miss having a contractor's lumber yard where the public came in went by the front doors, and all the contractors had a back enterance where we dealt with a completely different set of sales reps.  We had special contractor pricing, and these reps knew their stuff.  When you ran into an issue, they had company cars and would be at your job site within the hour.  You litereally would just drop off your prints and they priced the materials for you.

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Offline Kumba

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #31 on: May 24, 2011, 11:01:03 PM »
I have said it before and will say it again, "The ability to make money has nothing to do with your education", but only with your work ethic and determination.

Couldn't agree more.
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Offline jeffmoss26

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #32 on: May 27, 2011, 10:11:07 PM »
Even though one lumberyard here just closed, and another hardware store will close in a month or so, the hardware store I work at keeps plugging away despite a HD 5 minutes away. The secret is service. Screen and window repairs, lamp repairs, assembly of all kinds of items. We stock what people need for their old homes, and we know what we are selling. I've worked in retail hardware part time since high school. I get to know the customers and feel proud when I can help them solve even the smallest of problems. If someone wants to walk around HD or Lowe's and knows what they are looking for, then be my guest. Even when I could find an 'associate' to help, most of the time they don't know where the item is or what it even dows!
Jeff Moss
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Offline EV607797

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #33 on: May 31, 2011, 01:55:41 PM »
I was on a job last week and was introduced to a few of the electricians working on the job as they were breaking for lunch.  They were just sitting there waiting for their new helper to get back with their food.  The kid pulled up in a fairly nice pickup truck (his own) and was dressed a bit better than he should have been for the job.  The guys introduced me to him after they got their food and he went back to work drilling holes.  I asked the superintendent about this guy because he just seemed so out of place.

He told me that this guy was 23 years old, came from a fairly well-to-do family and had just finished a four year degree in some obscure field.  They had hired him because they needed cheap temporary help to finish this project, but that they planned to hang onto him when the project was finished.

On my way out, I encountered this guy out at the truck.  Curiosity was killing me, so I just had to ask him to tell me a little bit about himself.  He said that he had planned to pursue a career as an elementary school teacher and thought that even though the pay wasn't going to be great, he wanted to give something back to the community.  He hasn't been able to find work as anything but a substitute teacher for mighty poor wages, so he decided to try out his second career path, which was to work in the electrical trades.  Of course, he didn't plan to be a helper all of his life, but he accepted the fact that the only way to start in any career is at the bottom of the ladder.  He has been busting his ass as a helper now for about six months and the rest of the guys love working with him.  They have committed to keeping him with the company and allowing him to earn continuing education credits under their employment.  I asked him if he was going to ever consider going back to his career in education and he said no.  He said that he'll help out when he can as a substitute and is even thinking about helping with some of the night classes for adult education that are offered in the community.

When I asked him why he had become so dedicated to a career in such a short period of time, his answer was somewhat amazing:

"My parents have a lot of money.  A LOT of it.  Despite this, I was never permitted to slack on anything.  I had to do chores at home.  I had to help prepare the meals.  I had to do my own laundry since I was old enough to reach the machines.  Once I was old enough, my parents made me get a job.  All throughout school, I had to participate in at least two extra-curricular activities.  I tried all kinds of sports, groups and clubs.  I learned a little bit about a lot of things.  I guess in a way, I just never knew how to slack, so I never even thought about it."

After hearing that, all I could do was to shake his hand and thank him for reaffirming my belief that there are still some good kids out there who want to make something of themselves.
Ed Vaughn

(540) 623-7100 (V)  (910) 835-3600 (F)
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Offline jeffmoss26

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #34 on: June 03, 2011, 08:55:03 PM »
I like hearing stories like that Ed...makes me feel good that there are other young people like me who work hard to get ahead in their field, and do what it takes!
As you guys know I recently graduated and I'm back home trying to find a job. Staying busy now with computer and phone work, and getting my resume to anyone who will look at it!
Jeff Moss
Moss Communications
jeffmoss26@gmail.com

Offline JordonJ

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #35 on: June 12, 2011, 07:42:24 PM »
I went to college...biggest waste of 4 years of my life!!!

I worked a lot of different jobs.  Telecomm has been the best fit.  If I knew then what I know now, I would have gone straight to learning telecom (I dunno how easy that would have been back in 1988 though).

Offline hbiss

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #36 on: June 12, 2011, 10:47:34 PM »

He told me that this guy was 23 years old, came from a fairly well-to-do family and had just finished a four year degree in some obscure field.

That's pretty typical. Money bags Mommy and Daddy put their kid through college. You have to say something for this kid though because in such cases the kid is usually spoiled and useless.

There is a guy over on another board that I frequent who finished college and started a lawn care business. He was looking for advice on how to get customers because he only had one. He started the thread in March and the other day posted "thanks for all your help guys but I'm out of business. I can't get any customers... I still owe my parents money and I still need a way to pay for college, some how I wasted 6 months trying to start a lawn care business".

I can't think of a worst way to start out in life than with no job and already being tens of thousands of dollars in debt. If he had just gotten a job after high school and lived at home until he could afford to move out he would be well on his way to MAKING money, not spending half his life paying for some worthless diploma.

If I knew then what I know now, I would have gone straight to learning telecom (I dunno how easy that would have been back in 1988 though).

Actually that was a great time to get a job with one of the new interconnects that were starting up because of the 1984 divestiture.

-Hal
I gotta get out of this business...

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Online CMDL_GUY

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #37 on: June 13, 2011, 06:25:06 AM »
Today College is nothing more than a business. A business that wants every high school grad for a customer.


Let's call is what it really is; "Day care for young adults"
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

“Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”   -John Adams

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Offline JordonJ

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #38 on: June 13, 2011, 06:50:49 AM »
Today College is nothing more than a business. A business that wants every high school grad for a customer.


Let's call is what it really is; "Day care for young adults"

I think that was what it was back when I went to college (1988-1992)

Offline Kumba

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #39 on: June 13, 2011, 12:14:50 PM »
Today College is nothing more than a business. A business that wants every high school grad for a customer.

Let's call is what it really is; "Day care for young adults"

I think that was what it was back when I went to college (1988-1992)

I think that's what it is most of the time. For every student who is there for the pursuit of intellectual curiosity, I would guess there are 100 that are there to get a piece of paper and party.  And since colleges are trying to get every high school student to enroll, the chances of you really being able to even pursue your intellectual curiosity at any given college is dwindling. They are teaching to the lowest common denominator now. If mommy and daddy's precious little angel doesn't get A's and B's, why they just might quit paying for them to go to college.

I still think a lot of the more heavy hitting science degrees are best taught in college. However it does seem like less and less of them are being taught. One of the big reasons I quit seeking my engineering degree is because I didn't see a huge job market and the cost to finish the last two years at an accredited college was staggering. That combined with what some working engineers told me I could realistically expect to make didn't bode well. I still miss that I didn't pursue it further, but only from an intellectual standpoint. From a working and quality-of-living standpoint, I don't regret it at all.

Besides, one day I'll go back and finish it off for the fun of it. I'll be that weird old fat guy in the back of the class screwing up the bell curve and telling bed time stories about how things were "back in my day". :)
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Online CMDL_GUY

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #40 on: June 13, 2011, 01:24:18 PM »
They are teaching to the lowest common denominator now.

Exactly!
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

“Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”   -John Adams

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Offline hbiss

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #41 on: June 13, 2011, 01:59:14 PM »
One of the big reasons I quit seeking my engineering degree is because I didn't see a huge job market...

Exactly, I started on an BSEE degree but didn't finish 2 years because I woke up one day and asked myself where the hell am I going with this. Most companies were bringing in engineers from India because they were willing to work for less. If you look at the end of the tunnel and see darkness it doesn't make much sense to continue. Look at what has happened to the "prestigious" law and business degrees, we have lawyers and MBAs up the wazoo looking for work. So now all the X Box jockeys aspire to becoming financial and wall street gurus because they read in the papers how they make millions. That's right up there with wanting to be a rock star or a major sports figure. Grow up.

-Hal 
I gotta get out of this business...

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Offline Kumba

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #42 on: June 13, 2011, 03:27:27 PM »
One of the big reasons I quit seeking my engineering degree is because I didn't see a huge job market...

Exactly, I started on an BSEE degree but didn't finish 2 years because I woke up one day and asked myself where the hell am I going with this. Most companies were bringing in engineers from India because they were willing to work for less. If you look at the end of the tunnel and see darkness it doesn't make much sense to continue. Look at what has happened to the "prestigious" law and business degrees, we have lawyers and MBAs up the wazoo looking for work. So now all the X Box jockeys aspire to becoming financial and wall street gurus because they read in the papers how they make millions. That's right up there with wanting to be a rock star or a major sports figure. Grow up.

-Hal 

Yeah. I went to a local community college and had mostly all my pre-req's and major math out of the way for my AS degree when I quit. The crappy job market combined with the sheer cost of getting the BSEE was all the deterrent I needed. It also probably helped that I was paying my own way through college too. $1300/cr.hr. is a whole different thing when you have to work to make that money. It's a hell of a lot easier to just "go to college" when someone else is footing the bill.

Like I said though, the only thing I miss (or think I've missed) is the learning part. But it will be nice to eventually go back and just take the few classes I am interested in instead of all the crap I have to take for the degree. Guess you could call it a hobby :)
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Offline hbiss

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #43 on: June 13, 2011, 05:18:33 PM »
And another thing that gets me- I was talking to my wife's neice the other day and one of her kids will be starting kindergarten this fall. The kid just graduated (GRADUATED??) from preschool. She was given homework to do over the summer to be turned in to the kindergarten teacher. WTF??? Don't know about you but I never went to "nursery school" or daycare. My first day of school was kindergarten and all I did there was pee in my pants and listen to stories.

So with starting school before you are able to think and the constant pressure and demands all through grade and high school- isn't that like brainwashing? When does a kid have time to be a kid? Is it any wonder some commit suicide, shoot up the place or kill themselves if they don't get into their dream college? Is it any wonder many don't know how to be anything but students? This is nuts!!!!

-Hal
I gotta get out of this business...

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Online CMDL_GUY

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #44 on: June 13, 2011, 07:23:57 PM »
isn't that like brainwashing?

YEP!
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

“Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”   -John Adams

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Offline Kumba

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #45 on: June 13, 2011, 09:18:51 PM »
I remember kindergarten. It was basically arts and crafts, storytime, movietime, and playtime. Basically it was daycare. All you really learned was how to be social with other kids and follow directions from the teachers. Damn, I can't remember last week but I remember a dozen days from when I was 5. Damn my mind is a scary place.

Personally I think all the early enrollment stuff is just a chance at daycare.
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Offline hbiss

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #46 on: June 13, 2011, 10:13:45 PM »
From what I hear from parents, if their kid can't count and write numbers to 10 and can't write their name by the time they enter kindergarten they are short bus material.

-Hal
I gotta get out of this business...

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Offline Kumba

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #47 on: June 14, 2011, 12:58:32 PM »
Guess I can see why there is a rise in home schooling.
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Offline MacGyver

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #48 on: June 14, 2011, 05:19:21 PM »
Guess I can see why there is a rise in home schooling.

There is a HUGE rise, and it's not a negative thing.  When we were kids, the only ones who were home schooled were either trouble makers who were expelled, or certain religious groups.  Today it's a positive thing.  There are home school groups everywhere, and the kids don't miss out on the socialization.  The more I deal with the local schools, the more I see it as a positive option. 
-I'm only here because my flux capacitor is broken.

Offline Grider

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #49 on: June 16, 2011, 05:25:56 PM »
I heard the other day that our national economic problems are due to an over abundance of technology. The more I thought about that the more I thought OMFG, we are in deep chit. Actually I already thought that but the feeling just got worse.

I think there is a large amount of the US population that owe their job to technology. Think about the simple technology of a cash register. If it wern't for a cash register to total up a sale and indicate to the cashier how much change to give they would be out the door. Your average McDonalds employee is so inept they have a recorded greeting voice at the speaker to welcome the customer. They are too dumb to learn how to say "How can I help you today"!
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Online CMDL_GUY

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #50 on: June 16, 2011, 06:46:23 PM »
Your average McDonalds employee is so inept they have a recorded greeting voice at the speaker to welcome the customer.

I hear it worse than that, the register keys are marked to match the meals and items for sale, not dollars and cents; such as a key for large fry, or Big Mac or what ever!


Go to any store and make a purchase for say, $16.22. Now give the little darling a 20 dollar bill, a 1 dollar bill, and 22 cents, then watch his/her face go blank and then look back at you. You would think I put him in a round room and told him to go crap in the corner! I tell them to just proceed with entering the amount I gave them, then watch the little darlings face come to life when the register tells them to give me back $5.00
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

“Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”   -John Adams

K4LRM

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Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money.

Offline hbiss

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #51 on: June 16, 2011, 06:48:18 PM »
I think there is a large amount of the US population that owe their job to technology.

That's one side of the coin. How about the jobs lost due to technology? We can start with the internet.

-Hal
I gotta get out of this business...

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Offline Grider

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #52 on: June 16, 2011, 07:08:05 PM »
Quote
That's one side of the coin. How about the jobs lost due to technology? We can start with the internet.

Such as..............?
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Offline Grider

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #53 on: June 16, 2011, 07:44:52 PM »
I know a guy that landed a new gig almost 2 years ago via the internet. 400k plus private jet and nice living quarters.  :011:
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Offline RATHER BE FISHING

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #54 on: June 16, 2011, 07:57:02 PM »
But it's a TEMPORARY job.... :011:

Offline Grider

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #55 on: June 16, 2011, 08:02:37 PM »
Quote
But it's a TEMPORARY job....

God I hope so
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Offline Kumba

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #56 on: June 16, 2011, 08:25:50 PM »
Your average McDonalds employee is so inept they have a recorded greeting voice at the speaker to welcome the customer.

I hear it worse than that, the register keys are marked to match the meals and items for sale, not dollars and cents; such as a key for large fry, or Big Mac or what ever!


Go to any store and make a purchase for say, $16.22. Now give the little darling a 20 dollar bill, a 1 dollar bill, and 22 cents, then watch his/her face go blank and then look back at you. You would think I put him in a round room and told him to go crap in the corner! I tell them to just proceed with entering the amount I gave them, then watch the little darlings face come to life when the register tells them to give me back $15.00

Technology definitely allows some people to have a job they otherwise couldn't do. Just look at Larry, he thinks that if he buys $16.22, and gives someone $21.22, he'd get $15 in change! LOL!!! All's good Larry, I know you meant $5. Just had to bust your chops a little. :)

I don't think technology is solely to blame. It has displaced a lot of the manual labor jobs as now one back-hoe operator can do the work of a whole crew of ditch diggers in a quarter of the time. I think the biggest effect it has is that people mistake given technology as a natural occurrence. It's so ingrained in everything that it's hard to imagine life without it for most people. Hell, that's how we all make our living, taking things that used to require skill and finesse to do and putting it into a little nondescript box that hangs on the wall.
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Online CMDL_GUY

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #57 on: June 16, 2011, 08:38:31 PM »
Technology definitely allows some people to have a job they otherwise couldn't do. Just look at Larry, he thinks that if he buys $16.22, and gives someone $21.22, he'd get $15 in change! LOL!!! All's good Larry, I know you meant $5. Just had to bust your chops a little. :)

I did fix it, (after a friendly PM) but not quick enough

Note to self; Do not post math problems after cocktails! :011:
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

“Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”   -John Adams

K4LRM

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Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money.

Offline Kumba

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #58 on: June 16, 2011, 11:28:41 PM »
Technology definitely allows some people to have a job they otherwise couldn't do. Just look at Larry, he thinks that if he buys $16.22, and gives someone $21.22, he'd get $15 in change! LOL!!! All's good Larry, I know you meant $5. Just had to bust your chops a little. :)

I did fix it, (after a friendly PM) but not quick enough

Note to self; Do not post math problems after cocktails! :011:

LOL! All in good fun my friend :)
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Online CMDL_GUY

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #59 on: June 17, 2011, 05:49:09 AM »
LOL! All in good fun my friend :)

  :011:   :054:
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

“Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”   -John Adams

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Offline hbiss

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #60 on: June 17, 2011, 04:47:44 PM »
I think there is a large amount of the US population that owe their job to technology.

That's one side of the coin. How about the jobs lost due to technology? We can start with the internet.

-Hal

Quote
That's one side of the coin. How about the jobs lost due to technology? We can start with the internet.

Such as..............?


How about, because the internet is unregulated and free:

•   Disseminating information that people use to make their living thereby depriving them of that income.
•   Providing a means for anybody to “publish” anything that others can easily find and take as fact and use against you.
•   Providing information that leads people to believe they are an expert on whatever subject they are looking for. “A little information is dangerous”.
•   Providing an inexpensive and a no-responsibility way for opportunists to sell goods and services, undercutting legitimate businesses and putting them out of business.

I would say that these items account for 99% of the problems service type businesses encounter today.


-Hal

I gotta get out of this business...

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Offline Grider

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #61 on: June 18, 2011, 08:10:08 AM »
Dang, that is a lot to chew on. It sure is interesting subject matter to discuss. So much that I am having trouble deciding where to start.

"How about, because the internet is unregulated and free:"

Who is going to regulate and what are they gonna regulate?

•   Disseminating information that people use to make their living thereby depriving them of that income.
•   Providing a means for anybody to “publish” anything that others can easily find and take as fact and use against you.
•   Providing information that leads people to believe they are an expert on whatever subject they are looking for. “A little information is dangerous”.
•   Providing an inexpensive and a no-responsibility way for opportunists to sell goods and services, undercutting legitimate businesses and putting them out of business.

Will the same regulators be determining who is legit and who isn't.

I do believe you have a valid argument that the internet is the favorite medium for con artists but con artists have been around since Adam & Eve. In fact Adam was probably the first. Anyway, your legitimate grievance isn't with the internet but the cons that use it. In my opinion of course, I could be wrong.
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Offline hbiss

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #62 on: June 18, 2011, 08:35:57 AM »
"How about, because the internet is unregulated and free:"... Who is going to regulate and what are they gonna regulate?... Will the same regulators be determining who is legit and who isn't.

That's the million dollar question.

I do believe you have a valid argument that the internet is the favorite medium for con artists but con artists have been around since Adam & Eve. In fact Adam was probably the first. Anyway, your legitimate grievance isn't with the internet but the cons that use it.


I certainly agree that the con artists have found a way to operate that they only could dream about before the internet but I'm also just as much talking about the dissemination of information (and disinformation, even propaganda) that hurts businesses and trade.

Before the internet a person with a clogged drain would call a plumber. Now they Google "clogged drain" to see how to do it themselves.

-Hal

I gotta get out of this business...

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Online NFCphoneman

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #63 on: June 18, 2011, 08:39:34 AM »
...but con artists have been around since Adam & Eve. In fact Adam was probably the first.

Wouldn't that have been the serpant?  :015:

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #64 on: June 18, 2011, 09:00:54 AM »
I think the internet is a good topic.  I started a new thread so this one can get back to Mike Rowe and education. :003:


http://www.myphonetechs.com/index.php?topic=2064.0
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." - George Washington

“Remember democracy never lasts long. It soon wastes, exhausts, and murders itself. There never was a democracy yet, that did not commit suicide.”   -John Adams

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Faster horses, younger women, older whiskey, more money.

Offline hbiss

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #65 on: July 23, 2011, 08:56:02 PM »
To revive an old thread and back on topic I came across this eloquence over at another board in a reply to a question about why homeowners don't cut their own lawns.

More Americans today were "raised like veal" and more men capable of earning a decent living are "metrosexual" in outlook. That means breaking a sweat (except at the gym) is "yucky". You know, like a chick would find it.

I heard a guy on the radio today complaining about watching guys have a flat tire, stand around, sipping a latte', and wait for a real man to show up to change the flat for them. I agree. My wife changed a flat on her car and was late to work one day. The "men" in her office were shocked because they would have called AAA.

The stigma of doing it yourself is just too much for some people... It's the combination of a) feminization of men, b) physical laziness, and c) status seeking and the resultant peer pressure to look wealthy. Because the unspoken belief amongst many in America seems to be "if you're not rich, you're nothing".


-Hal
I gotta get out of this business...

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Offline Kumba

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #66 on: July 24, 2011, 01:11:01 AM »
You are a catch-22 Hal. In one hand you say you need to be trained and qualified to DIY. And then on the other hand you say that as men we should all strive to DIY. You confuse me good sir! :)

I do hear the point you are trying to make though. There are plenty of people who think sweat is a sign of destitution.
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Offline hbiss

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #67 on: July 24, 2011, 11:25:11 AM »
You are a catch-22 Hal. In one hand you say you need to be trained and qualified to DIY. And then on the other hand you say that as men we should all strive to DIY. You confuse me good sir! :)

Be confused no more.

There's a vast difference between someone who was brought up to know how to handle the everyday manual tasks required in life and someone who attempts something that requires experience and training.

The apparent conumdrum as it relates to the aforementioned group (that is probably the majority of young people today) can be explained by realizing that in their minds trades people are to be looked down upon. So even though the sum total of their own skills is sitting behind a desk using an iPhone, if they have the opportunity to save money (the wealth thing) and deny us yucky underserving people the same, it's acceptable to their beliefs.

I was at the car wash the other day (Yeah, I know but it was too hot to wash it myself). While I'm waiting for my car the Mercedes in front of it comes out. The "help" is wiping it down in like 100 degree heat. I notice the owner going over to the tip box making sure at least one of the guys is watching. From where I was standing I could see that he faked putting some bills in the slot. His hand was empty.

-Hal
I gotta get out of this business...

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Offline Kumba

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #68 on: July 24, 2011, 03:46:51 PM »
See, for me it all boils down to "can" and "want". I can wash my car, but I want to take it to the detail shop and let them do it for $40. That is because they will do a better job then I will and have the time and materials to get it done. But that is more of a scenario of valuing the quality of the end product I guess.

For me it all boils down to the time and effort involved versus how interesting I think the project is. For instance, I can change the oil in my car, but I just really don't care to. I've done it a thousand times before and it's just repetitious and boring to me. I gladly pay my $30 to the Ford dealer and let them do it.

And as far as the cheapskate at the car wash, I see that all the time down here. Either nitpicking every little thing or trying to weasel something for nothing.
ViciDial Consulting for Call Centers - I'm one of those Evil Asterisk/VoIP Guys. MBSWWYIPPBX

Offline hbiss

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  • Location: Westchester County, NY
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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #69 on: July 24, 2011, 04:32:19 PM »
See, for me it all boils down to "can" and "want". I can wash my car...

Right. But we have done it and know how to do it. We've rebuilt and replaced engines nevermind just changing oil. For us it is like you said "can" and "want". We make the choice. But for them it's never a choice, it's leave the dirty stuff to some low paid grunt, I'm better than that.

-Hal
I gotta get out of this business...

COMSYSTEC- Phone Systems | paging systems | background music systems | foreground music systems | retail music | restaurant music

Offline Grider

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    • Greenlight Communications
Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #70 on: July 24, 2011, 06:51:34 PM »
Quote
We make the choice. But for them it's never a choice, it's leave the dirty stuff to some low paid grunt, I'm better than that.

I like being the grunt that gets the call from the elite. I've had my share of those that look down their nose at me in the beginning. That usually goes away when I implement my full arsenal of personal communication skills. A few comments like if this was easy and anyone can do it then why am I here? Nuff said!

It is those that have that thought in the back of their mind that that they are above work because their mommy said so that piss me off.

Friends of mine own a B&B hotel. Together they have one daughter. A few years ago at age 17 the daughter was expected to work along side with several housekeepers. The daughter was willing to get right in there and do anything and everything and she did very well, she carried her load and her dad was very proud of her. Mom on the other hand was animate with the dad when she discovered daughter was cleaning toilets alongside the staff. Dad lost in the long run.

Same dad had a flat tire on his Mercedes. To make a long story short he changed it himself on the side of the road. Few miles later the wheel fell off. We refer to the $2000 flat tire incident.

I think it is a trade of respect. If someone is doing something for me that I can't do I respect them and expect the same in return.
ESI Certified Technician since 2003
www.greenlightconnection.com

Offline Kumba

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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #71 on: July 25, 2011, 06:17:57 PM »
I think it is a trade of respect. If someone is doing something for me that I can't do I respect them and expect the same in return.

I respect those who are doing a job I can't do. I also respect those who are doing a job well that I job I don't want to do. I do not respect those who are doing a job crappily. If they aren't going to do it right I would rather do it my self or take the work elsewhere.
ViciDial Consulting for Call Centers - I'm one of those Evil Asterisk/VoIP Guys. MBSWWYIPPBX

Offline anthonyh

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  • Location: New Jersey
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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #72 on: July 25, 2011, 10:01:02 PM »
Quote
We make the choice. But for them it's never a choice, it's leave the dirty stuff to some low paid grunt, I'm better than that.

I like being the grunt that gets the call from the elite. I've had my share of those that look down their nose at me in the beginning. That usually goes away when I implement my full arsenal of personal communication skills. A few comments like if this was easy and anyone can do it then why am I here? Nuff said!


Funny you should say that, I used the same line last week...customer "This seems like it should have been fixed hours ago". My first response "I would have been if you kept your hands off it" after he pushed some more, "If its so easy why am I here", and last after I decided that he was no longer going to be a customer of mine  "your right, its easy, so you fix it, have a great night"  I packed up gear, slid the cover over his god forsaken media panel and left.   He has left a few messages so I am assuming it was not so easy.  Best customer service no, not by any means, satisfying.. oh ya! 

By the way the trouble was he had two wireless access points clustered together, he was having an issue getting on line (cable modem down) as he was fumbling he defaulted both access points, as well as unplugged well everything.  So it had to be toned out, labled, reterminted, and reconfigered.  When I left it was all back together but the access points were not configured.   
 
...Please don't touch that

Offline hbiss

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  • Location: Westchester County, NY
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Re: Testimony of Mike Rowe
« Reply #73 on: July 26, 2011, 08:34:05 AM »
If its so easy why am I here

The usual answer that I get is "because I'm paying you and that's your job!"

-Hal
I gotta get out of this business...

COMSYSTEC- Phone Systems | paging systems | background music systems | foreground music systems | retail music | restaurant music